The Space We Held: Reflecting on 2024 with Tracy Gilchrist
“I still don't even really know what's happening… but I don't want it to end.”
She’s in queer media. She’s seen it. And she’s holding space.
She’s Tracy Gilchrist, the breakout star of the Wicked press tour, whose viral “holding space” interview got a New York Times explainer, a Variety “break down” with Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo and was just last week referenced by Timothée Chalamet and Elle Fanning when they sat down with Gilchrist to promote their film, A Complete Unknown (“[we’re] starstruck,” the pair declared to Gilchrist).
Gilchrist, the Editor-in-Chief of The Advocate, took this opportunity and ran with it. In the month since, she’s partnered with Mac’s Viva Glam and Amazon’s Echo Show. It’s an exciting and unexpected career turn for Gilchrist, who has worked for years in an industry that notoriously undervalues journalists, particularly ones in queer media. It’s also one that couldn't have come at a better time.
“Although I became Editor-in-Chief of The Advocate right before the pandemic, I felt like my career was sidelined. I was trying to amp up speaking, do more moderating, which I love to do, and it all just kind of flatlined and took the wind out of my sails. I screwed around a lot in my 20s. I was coming out in the 80s, so I just didn't do all the things in the order that most people do them. This has really given me a boost that at 57, at this age, that I can get out there and have a moment, possibly. Not live in a tent under the 405 in my retirement with my cat.”
I’ve been smitten by “holding space” since I first saw it, but what I particularly like about the life cycle of this meme is how pure it seems to be.
It’s rooted in earnestness, sincerity and emotion, and at the center of it all is Tracy — or Queen Tracy as many have come to call her — who has become a beacon of light for queer people in times of great darkness. I think there’s a great amount of root on-ability about Tracy, a quality that few can conjure in times as divisive as these. To close out the year, I Zoom’d with Tracy (yes, she wore a Carol shirt, an homage to the Todd Haynes film regarded by many as the best lesbian film ever) to discuss holding space, the state of queer media and to get her thoughts on some of the “best of” the year.
So you went out for the first time since the “holding space” interview blew up last night, and I imagine it was a different experience than you were accustomed to in the past. What was it like being out and having people recognize you and stop you?
It was so wild, because I am a woman of a certain age. Typically, when I go out, I don't get noticed in a bar at all. And I'm short, so just nobody notices. So I was standing at the bar with [Out Magazine Editor-in-Chief] Daniel Reynolds, and he was ordering a cocktail, and this guy at the bar turned around and did a triple take, and lost his mind. [Laughs] And then, then from there, it was just pictures the rest of the time.
One of the things I like about this moment is that there's a lot of mini-moments within. Obviously, there's the holding space quote, but then there's the finger grab, there's “I've seen it,” there's “I work in queer media.” So the great thing about this is it's not a singular moment, but rather the sum of many parts.
I really have to thank you, because you broke that out in your post and looking at it now, I watched the video back, and I didn't even notice the finger grab. I just didn't even notice it. But when you broke that out, I was like, “Oh no, this is high camp.” This is camp as Susan Sontag explained it, because it was so sincere — all of it. [Laughs]
I think often the difficult thing to thread in moments like these is: How does this person really benefit from the exposure? And I'm so happy to see you really being able to utilize this moment to further your career — and hopefully your pocketbook.
I’ve been in queer media for a long time, so that pocketbook could use a lot! [Laughs]
Could you talk about how this has changed your life, both from the exposure perspective, but also in terms of creating new opportunities for you as a business person?
You know, it's a funny thing. I was an actor. Way back in the day, I did theater. I feel like I'm falling into this very easily; it just feels like a direction that was preordained in some way, or that I conjured into being many, many years ago that's finally coming to fruition. So when this started happening, I was doing loads of interviews and at one point, I thought I was going to black out. I felt so overwhelmed by it, and I had people saying, “You need to trademark this. You need to do this, you need to do that. You need to do merch,” and I was like, “I am just in this. I don't know which direction to go.” So I feel I've had a few people really help me, step in and just kind of lift me in a way which has been wonderful, because I was fielding all the requests for interviews myself. So just that alone felt like so much. And I do feel like I missed out? I would have liked to do merch and give a percentage of that to queer youth, either to The Trevor Project or It Gets Better or something. Maybe there's still something there, but it has really bolstered me. And also just… I think this moment for queer media is really important to me, because we need it right now. We need our voices more than ever with this impending Tr*mp administration. I actually don't know why I said “I'm in queer media.” I could have said “I have a lot of queer friends.” I could have said anything. I don't know why “I'm in queer media” came out of my mouth, except that Cynthia's reaction was so sincere that it threw me. I was completely thrown.
As something of a cultural anthropologist myself, I'm really fascinated by the life cycle of a moment like this. Take this past weekend, to have this new viral moment with you and Timothée Chalamet and Elle Fanning in which they're not only starstruck by you, but recreate the moment on a whim without a second’s hesitation. I think it speaks to the fact that this wasn’t just a flash in the pan. The life cycle could have moved on very quickly, and it hasn't. What's it been like for you to witness the longevity of this?
I haven't had time to really come up for air and think about it. I'm really happy this happened now for a bunch of reasons. Again, post election, I could be really spiraling, like so many of us could, so I'm very happy that this has bolstered me, personally. The love and the laughter has really lifted me up, and it's also shown me the strength of our community. And it was weird because when this happened, some people were just being really cynical, and purposefully saying, “I don't know what holding space means.” If you are a human person in this world, you can intuit what that means in this context. I kept saying from the beginning, “If you don't get it, or you want to pretend like you don't get it, it's not for you; it's for us.” And I think that for me… it's been a yardstick in a way of just really knowing who my community is and feeling that chosen family. That much, I can really lean into and feel.
With a lot of it, I still don't even really know what's happening, but I don't want it to end. And I'm not talking about the attention. I want conversations to keep happening and to lean in and hold space and do that for one another. And yes, I hope that I can get some opportunity out of it; you know, a podcast or whatever. I'd like to keep moving forward. I've got to do my own thing at some point, on some level. And so it's really pushed me in that direction.
Also, for years, I couldn't figure it out. The pandemic really got me. I'm single. I was alone for a long time. It was rough. I've had a book agent that I'm supposed to write a book proposal for, and I could not get the angle of how I want to tell the story of my life. And so that's kind of coming into clearer picture now and I can get that going. But yeah, it's pushing me to not give up, because… I’m tired. I've been working so hard for so long, and so I’m really grateful that I had this moment. And if I'm lucky, maybe Wicked will call for the next movie.
Working in queer media, we've seen a lot of changes happen over the years, both from a budget perspective and also from an opportunity one. Why do you think, heading into 2025, it’s so important that we have queer media telling our stories, as opposed to the New York Times, for instance, since they cover LGBTQ+ issues? You and I know the two are not the same thing. So how would you articulate queer media’s importance?
I think it's important because in queer media, we don't have to look at both sides of issues. We don't have to pretend that Donald Tr*mp is going to be good for us. We know he's not. We don't have to pretend that science doesn't bear out on things like gender affirming care and trans women in sports. We don't have to pretend that. We get to tell the story correctly, because we're not trying to serve an audience that isn't us. It's great if we can go beyond that, but we're not trying to serve that audience, so we don't have to pretend that the Tr*mp voter down the street is our friend.
What do queer people need to do better when it comes to supporting the queer media ecosystem?
Come to our sites, for one thing. Click on it. I see even my friends share stories we've written on from other sites. Like, come on you guys! We need you! [Laughs] So we need that traffic. We need that support. Subscribe to the magazines. We still have print, which will be in the archives forever. It's kind of incredible when I think about it. And also, for The Advocate — which is the same age as I am, 57 years-old now — we have started a reader revenue program, kind of like what the Guardian does, where we're asking folks to just directly support our work. Because especially at this time when advertisers are squeamish about being aligned with LGBTQ+ brands, we need it more than ever.
I want to ask you some questions to get some superlatives from you for the year 2024. What was the best part of your personal life this year?
I will say this, I had a crush, like a real, real crush for the first time in a long time back in June, and it didn't quite go the way that I would have loved — long distance. And it was so long since I'd had a crush that I wasn't really great at expressing how crushed out I was. [Laughs] So she didn't think I was into her, but it made me feel alive. I thought I was sick. I was like, “What is wrong with me?” I didn't want to eat. I couldn't stop thinking about this person. And I started Googling it. I had just forgotten what it felt like. So that was good and a little heartbreaking… but it was good.
What was the worst part of 2024?
I got into a pretty big fight with my mother ahead of the election. That was pretty bad. The election, the discussions around it and learning that people that I love and who love me will never get it.
I think this is something a lot of queer people deal with: This idea that we're going to continue to have to — to borrow a Tracy-ism — hold space for people in our lives who not only disagree with us, but whose belief system, in many cases, is such where it sort of sees queer people as lesser. And yet for many of us, we don't want to cut these people out of our lives. We want to have relationships. We want to find common ground. How do you thread these two seemingly incongruous notions?
Well, you know, if it weren't my mother, she'd be out of my life. So I don't try to thread it for people that I don't have to. This is my mother. She's 85 now, and I know she loves me, she loves my gay friends. Also, she moved to Florida and has these influences. [Laughs] She can't wrap her head around it. I have tried for so long to talk with her about these issues. Even maybe a month before the election, she said she thought Kamala would win, and she hoped she did, because of her healthcare. And then there was this shift, this crazy shift, and she decided to pick a fight with me about everything. Everything I don't believe in. I kind of was ready to write her off. I don't know how to deal with it, because at the end of the day, I love her, but I don't feel the same way about her now. It's really hard. So I don't know that I'm threading it very well. And we finally talked after a couple months, and it's just under the rug, didn't even touch on it, and that's also hurtful. So I don't think I'm threading it very well. And for people who are not my mother, they're just gone. I don't have time for it. And I think at this point, if you are still supporting Tr*mp, you don't care. You just don't care. I think that if you are still supporting him, and I have to say, even of my own family, I think that you have some xenophobia, racism, homophobia, transphobia, any combination of those. There's something in there. I do not believe you support him for the price of an egg. I don't believe it. I'm kind of a hardliner.
The Golden Globes are coming up this weekend. As someone in queer media, I know that you’re watching a lot of the films and television shows and talking to these actors. So I wanted to get your thoughts on Tracy's best film of 2024.
I have a couple different ways to go, but the one that I really landed on, that I loved, is The Room Next Door.
What did you like most about it?
Just watching those two women just be in the same room and work off of each other with Almodóvar’s colors and Alberto Iglesias’s score. I was just transported. I mean, these are two of the best actors living and working today, and Almodóvar’s probably my second-favorite filmmaker — Todd Haynes is my first — so I'll go with that one. But I have to say, I loved Challengers and Love Lies Bleeding also.
Would you put Wicked on your best films of 2024 list?
Yes, of course! Of course it's one of my favorites.
What was your favorite part of Wicked?
I mean, it feels a little on the nose to say “Defying Gravity,” but just anytime Ariana and Cynthia were on screen together. They are magic together. I was blown away by them. So any of their interactions, I just really ate it all up. But, yeah, as a queer woman, just kind of reading into the lyrics of some of these songs. Although Gregory Maguire said that when he wrote the novel, that it was intentional tension, so kind of reading into that love story between them.
And there's so many layers, because you've got Gregory Maguire's text. You've got Cynthia Erivo, an out queer woman, playing Elphaba. You have Ariana talking about Glinda's queerness in interviews that she's done. In some instances, when stories like this emerge, it can be fan fiction driving the narrative, but in this instance, it’s also contextual.
Yes!
Best TV show of 2024?
Oh, Bad Sisters. I am obsessed with Bad Sisters. I was watching it, and I'm like, you know, the first season is perfection. It's going to be so hard to recreate that. And then by the fifth episode of Season 2 with Fiona Shaw on the boat, I was like, “No, they did it.”
Who was the best actress of 2024?
I gotta give it to Cynthia or Ariana. I have a confession: I know Cynthia's career really well, because I'm a Broadway baby and a devotee of the Kennedy Center Honors. I've written about her and I watched Genius: Aretha. And Ariana, I knew from SNL and her Christmas song with Kelly Clarkson, which is one of my all time favorites. But I did not know Ariana's acting career, really, except that she could do these incredible impressions. And so I was really blown away by her. Her acting is unbelievable. She just reaches in. I mean, I knew Cynthia would do that, but I felt like Ariana just reached in and grabbed my heart because I was with her every step of the way.
Best actor of 2024?
Let me think about this one.
Are you giving it to any of the men in Conclave?
Yes! I was gonna say Ralph Fiennes. How did you know that?
I just had a feeling.
I also loved Josh O’Connor and Mike Faist in Challengers. I thought they were great. And Adrien Brody, my God, yeah. Incredible.
Who is the best director of 2024?
I feel like I gotta give it to Luca Guadagnino, because he had two films that were so different.
Who was the best celebrity of 2024?
Oh, Chappell Roan.
What's your favorite Chappell song?
“Red Wine Supernova.”
I feel like you and her need to have a sit down at some point.
I would love that. She scares me though. [Laughs] I would be afraid. You know who really scares me? I have interviewed her a few times, and the last time I moderated a panel for Love Lies Bleeding — Kristen Stewart is so smart and savvy. You can't ask her anything now that she is not anticipating. And I want to make her happy, right? And I just felt like I couldn't live up to her this time. [Laughs] I love Kristen Stewart, but I'm afraid of her now.
Last but not least, who was the best queer person of 2024?
Oh, I'm gonna go with Cynthia. What she has done starring in this film and being fully in her queer and Black identity is immense. That's huge. It’s the biggest film of the year. Like if Margot Robbie had come out during Barbie or something. [Laughs] It's just so big, and so for her to be in that and to have accepted the Human Rights Campaign award, and then she was Out’s Icon of the Year — I'm picking Cynthia.
I think that's a great choice, and I think there's reason to believe she will maybe retain that title in 2025. Well, Tracy, thank you so much. I'm so happy for you. I don't think this is a moment. Rather, I think this is something that you've laid the groundwork for throughout your career, and maybe now it's all coming to fruition. As a fan of yours, it's so fun to see this continue on, and to know that the attention that this brings about can create so many opportunities for you moving forward.
I hope so. And you know, I really thank you because your post, breaking that out, and then Ariana getting in on that, because she knows you, that really kept it going and sent it into the stratosphere.
It's so funny because she and I are good friends, and when the interview came out, I remember so vividly before it went viral, we were passing voice memos back and forth and she told me that she could draw you from sight.
That is surreal.
Appreciated this one