The Nicole Kidman Interview
It was all very [Meryl scream].
You know you that bitch when you’ve got Meryl Streep — Meryl Fucking Streep — on stage at an award show giving you your flowers. But that’s Nicole Kidman, whom director Stanley Kubrick regarded as a “thoroughbred” and Streep more equitably identified as “a mustang and a workhorse and a champion racer all in one.” During her speech honoring Kidman, the recipient of the 49th American Film Institute (AFI) Life Achievement Award, Streep spoke about not having recovered from her first day of filming Season 2 of Big Little Lies opposite Kidman:
“I have never seen anything like that in my life. People call it bravery, when an actress bares all and leaps off into the unknown, she dives deep into the darker parts of what it is to be a human being — but I don’t think it’s bravery; I think it’s love. I think she just loves it. And I think that’s the greatest attribute an actor can have is that blend of appetite and curiosity and recklessness. You have that, baby.”
When I think about Nicole Kidman, I feel my brain’s hinges unlock as they attempt to flood in images and quotes and memories. There’s the AMC ad (obviously), her clap, her gasp, her sitting in a chair, her smoking a cigarette, her Little Quacker impression, eating bugs, capturing (and releasing) a tarantula, “it’s a little tough,” “everything is deeply sad” — I could go on and on and on.
What I will take away from my time with Nicole Kidman — other than her effectively silencing a siren by waving her hand and staying “stop it,” her telling me she loves me, recruiting me for the AMC ad sequel and calling me her new manager — was how deeply engaged and curious she remains not just about acting, but about the film and television industry. “You’ve got me on my soapbox!” she exclaims at one point after lamenting that “we want people to go into these careers and into these jobs knowing that you will be appreciated and that your work is an art form too and it's never going to be devalued.”
Below, a long overdue and incredibly necessary conversation with the Academy Award-winning actor, producer and great mind that is Nicole Kidman. (You can listen to the interview in its entirety by clicking here.)
I want to start off by congratulating you on A Family Affair, on Expats and on your recent AFI Lifetime Achievement Award. It looks from the outside like you are amidst a very creatively fulfilling time. Do you feel in a particular groove right now?
I'm in a place where I'm just sort of reaching for opportunities and willing and open and curious. And so, when things come my way, I'm like, “Okay, let me consider that. Let me look at that. Let me try that.” And that comes from the desire and the fire that still exists in me.
In your new film A Family Affair, your character is asked by her mother (who I have to mention is played by Kathy Bates): “Why do you write?” You respond: “To find out what I think about things I don't understand.” And I want to ask you that same question, but through the lens of acting: Why do you act?
Yes, to find out about things I don't understand, but also to connect, to not feel alone, to grow, to discover, to help amplify stories and voices. There are so many different reasons that I act, but I've been acting since I was tiny — not that I was ever tiny [laughs] — but since I was young, and I've just never known any other calling. I read a lot. I wanted at one point to try and be a lawyer. I'm interested in psychology. I'm interested in so many different things but there's nothing that can replace acting for me. It keeps me sane as well because I have a very normal life and I also have an extraordinary, imaginary creative life.
There was a recent article in Dazed pronouncing that the rom-com is dying and that's clearly not true, as evidenced by A Family Affair. One thing I love about this film is that you actually get comedy. A lot of rom-coms end up just being more romance, but this is actually a balance of the two. What appealed to you about this genre specifically in 2024?
There's even slapstick comedy in this. I love slapstick. I just felt this was a really good thing to do after coming off Expats and a number of things that have been very psychologically traumatic and I do need to have some love in my life! [Laughs] I need to have a little hope and I need to have a little fun.
You've got Big Little Lies’s Celeste right up to bat!
Yeah! I also did Paperboy with Zac [Efron] and had the best time with him. Zac's an incredible comedian because he's so deadpan. And Joey King is brilliant. She's so funny. She is the new comedian to follow, and it's such an art form, so I'm all in! Give me a go.
You recently participated in a Hollywood Reporter roundtable and you talked about the incredible position it is to be a producer. Next year will be the 15th anniversary of the founding of your production company Blossom Films.
I love you. You have statistics!
You've been very intentional about your desire to empower women’s stories as a producer and I'm wondering if there is a certain something you look for in a script that tells you that specific project rises to the top?
Everything's different. I obviously recognize great writing, but there are times when I've signed onto a project with no script because of my relationship with the director, so I have many different reasons for doing things. And as my husband says, I jump off a cliff. I sort of never think of the consequences because I'm always like “I want to try this!” and I sort of jump, so a lot of the things that I choose to do require more abandonment and a sense of courage at times. I don't want to become someone that’s safe. I try to always stay in a place that feels a little precarious.
What imbued you with that sensibility? Has that always been who you are or is it something you've developed over time in this industry?
I think I've always been that way. It's so easy to talk yourself out of doing something. It's much easier to go “Well, I can see all the reasons why not to do this,” and I've seen people do that who are abundantly talented and therefore they become stagnant. So for me, I'm always like “Why not?” I remember once when I sat down with Philip Roth, he gave me a copy of The Human Stain and in the front of it, he wrote “Why not?” and I thought: “What a great way to live life, because why not?” But at the same time, I’m also willing to take the hits because we're all gonna get hit — not just in your career, but in life. You get knocked down a lot and anyone that says you don't is not telling you the truth, but you have a choice there and I think a lot of that is just pulling yourself together and getting up off the floor. It sounds easy to say it, but I've literally lived it where I just cannot get off the floor right now or out of the bed because I'm in a fetal position, but then I make myself. That pushing forward is an action that is actually doable. And reach for the people around you that are going to support you, that aren't going to destroy you. Go where the love is and know when you need help. There's an enormous amount of pride and ego involved and when you take that away and you say “I actually need help right now,” there are so many people out there that will offer their help, and I've been the recipient of that.
That actually segues nicely into my next question about the role of a producer: For myself and many listeners, we hear the role of “producer” and we understand what it means in theory, but I'm wondering if you could walk me through what it actually entails.
There are many different facets to it. There are line producers; the producers that are involved in raising the financing; there are the producers that are more creatively involved; there are producers that are clearing the way for production to happen so that you can actually shoot each day; there’s the payroll — and that's why a lot of times, you will see many credits for producers. I think everyone has their place. It depends, and I think you morph into what's needed per production. The thing I love to do is to be able to carve a path for filmmakers, writers, actors and people that haven’t been given the opportunities that I have and to be able to share that; to bet on people that haven't necessarily been able to show their worth yet; to stand there and hold somebody's hand and walk through the fire with them; to weather failures and successes, because even with success can come fear. I just love having some control over destiny — not just my own destiny, but other people's as well.
This makes me think about Expats, because I was reading that there were several actors in the production whose first time on a set was for that show, so they were having to acclimate not just to the specifics of that set, but also to the idea of a set in general and all that goes on there. It was my understanding that you sort of helped shepherd them through both the experience of making Expats as well as the experience of filmmaking itself.
I tried to go: “This is it. You're here, we're all equal, let's go and let's get in the ring and play. Let's get it on its feet and do what we do.” And even with [director Lulu Wang]: She had made the Farewell, but she hadn't tackled something this enormous, so just being able to be her champion was important. Even with her casting decisions, saying “Let's find the best person for the role,” and that requires calling the studio and saying “Okay, this is the best person. I will do what I can to carry this for you, but please give opportunities to other people here.” I love being able to do that. A lot of actors won't work with first-time directors; I will. That's my purpose in the industry and my place in the world. I was bet on; I was a kid from Australia who was 5’11 and people bet on me, so I like to be able to offer that back to complete my full circle. I like being able to support the underdogs and I love the discovery of new talent.
You mentioned Lulu Wang, and it's my understanding that you courted her, in a sense; you were really intentional in going after her and making sure that she was attached to Expats. What makes you want to work with a specific director?
I just connect to somebody from afar when I see their films. It’s happened throughout my whole career, and it's why I've worked around the world and sought out auteurs. I think Lulu is an auteur. She does pretty much everything. She's involved in the score, the writing — every aspect of it. I love for those people to have their place because the auteurs are the ones that really change it up. They create the future for us. I'll still work with people that don't do everything, but I'm very seduced by and drawn to the auteurs and philosophers of the world. I think Lulu has a strong philosophy. She just gave that speech at the Gotham Awards and it was so amazing. Those things need to be in the world.
That philosophy you describe is even bigger than just the art form; it's the worldview and the perspective that they bring to the work.
And art does change the world! Artists can instigate enormous change because we do it through heart. We do it through love. We do it through connection. Whether you're politicized or not in the form of your art, you can change the way people think, and it's such a beautiful avenue for that change.
We've been talking about actors, producers and directors, but there are also so many other creatives that are part of the process that I know you work with intimately.
Camera operators! People probably don't understand that when a camera operator is in the scene with you and is feeling you energetically, that can change the performance because a lot of times, especially if it's handheld, you've got somebody there who has to not just sense you; they have to dance with you, and that's a creative relationship too. You don't hear about that very often. The cinematographer knows how to come in and shape things so that the performance is captured. We have to acknowledge all of these people who go into making a performance: the prop master, the production designer. You walk onto a set and the depth and richness of it — those things are not as celebrated in our industry, which is why I'm so glad the Academy Awards still has all these categories. We need them, because these people work so hard behind the scenes for us [actors] and we get to be up front, but we're representing everybody's work and we want people to go into these careers and into these jobs knowing that you will be appreciated and that your work is an art form too and it's never going to be devalued. You've got me on my soapbox! [Laughs]
Do you have any desire to step into the director role?
Maybe I have a story in me at some point, but my calling is acting, so that's what I'm here to do. I'm here to support, be a part of, synchronize, become one with the director — whatever is needed, but my commitment to my craft is probably as an actor. I have strong ideas for things, but I also need to be shaped and I'm happy to be shaped. But I think they say everyone has at least one story in them.
It sounds like it's a “when,” not an “if”!
I don't know. I can be a bit lazy! [Laughs]
On the upcoming season of Big Little Lies, you are going to re-inhabit the role of Celeste. There are also rumors, which I won’t make you confirm or deny, that you might re-inhabit Gillian Owens for a just-announced Practical Magic sequel…
That is true. I'll let you get that!
That's very, very exciting! Are there any other characters that have stayed with you through the years that you might like to try on once again?
No, because I'm not a go-backwards type; I want to go forward. I think the reason Big Little Lies Season 3 was always meant to be is that there's a third part to the story. It just required time. Practical Magic 2 is based on Sandy [Sandra Bullock] and I just talking about sisterhood, which is what that film is ultimately about, and it’s interesting to be explored as time has gone on because there's still so much more to that story and it's really fun. Part of my “Why not?” philosophy is just: Why not? The one thing that I always pass on that Stanley Kubrick taught me is to never shut an idea down. Let the idea percolate, because it's so easy to say it’s a terrible idea, and then that's gone. What a pity! Stanley would say to give it the 10-second rule; you're not allowed to poo-poo something immediately. It puts a stop on the ridiculing or making someone feel foolish for putting an idea out there, which is too often the reflex.
Now I'm gonna be more conscious about this reflex and try not to say “no” so quickly!
I'll be listening, Evan! I’ll be watching! [Laughs]
On Big Little Lies, one of my favorite moments from the series is Meryl Streep's Mary Louise screaming at the dinner table and your reaction to said scream. What do you recall about the filming of that scene? Did you have any idea that it was going to have the long-tail impact that it's had?
[Laughs] The scream is extraordinary, and I'll never forget the little boys at the table when she did it; they were just like “Whoaaaa.” Meryl is the icon of all icons. There's nobody that touches her ever, and anyone that says they do — I’ll kill! [Laughs] But when she did it, it was chilling and it runs through you because of the force behind her. She's otherworldly; she comes from another planet.
I love that we've gotten several opportunities to see you both on screen together.
I would love another opportunity! She's just the most wonderful person, but she's also the most extraordinary actress. I can’t believe that she gave me my AFI award. I was like “Okay, that's it.” I have a photo framed now of us hugging and holding hands.
I am a gay man, so I am legally obligated to ask you about the AMC ad: A sequel was announced in 2022. A new version was released in March of this year, but not an out-and-out sequel, which has many — but no one more than myself — wondering: Are we ever getting more of this iconic link up?
Do you want more?
I cannot express in words how much we, and I'm speaking on behalf of gay men — or actually, the world as a whole — want more.
Please speak on behalf of gay men! [Laughs]
We all want more! And I feel we were promised more. There was all this hype about a sequel and then we got some new audio put in, a new line…
You're right. That’s not okay.
It's an injustice!
Well, it's terrifying to think of having to come in and do something new, but if you'll all support it, then I’m happy to do it. We've got ideas and we've thrown things around and it’s definitely there if there's the appetite for it. I just don't want to overstay my welcome.
I think it might be time. Now, Nicole: Are you thinking the silver pinstripe suit? Does that come back?
[Laughs] I knew you were going to say that! What do you think?
I kind of feel like we want to evolve. Maybe an extra in the background walks through the frame wearing it as a little homage?
Golly! Evan, you can be recruited! Would you like to do it?
Oh, absolutely! I want to ask you about what's next. I know you have many irons in the fire, but I'm wondering: Is there a role that you haven't yet found or a story you haven't yet told that you're eager to bring to life?
I'd love to do a one-woman show. I have no idea what it'd be about, but I’d love to do some more theater. I love the discipline and I love the immediacy of it. I did Photograph 51 on the West End and didn't have it come to Broadway because I had small children and it was just a lot for my kids to not have their mama there at night. They're a little older now, and now they're like “Please go! Don't be here!” [Laughs]
I read that it was your daughter that encouraged Big Little Lies Season 3, so maybe her ulterior motive was really just to get you out of the house!
Yeah! [Laughs] “Set me free, please!” But I think now would be a great time to start to entertain live theater. I just love being right there connecting with the audiences because there isn't that immediate connection when you're doing film or television, so I’m headed that way, but it doesn't have to be a one-woman show. I just love to do the most difficult thing.
I'm just spitballing here…
You’re my manager now!
…but I'm thinking maybe a Broadway musical?
Oh, Evan, you’re kidding! That's too hard! Then I can't go out at all. I have to be on voice rest.
Nicole, remember you told me that we don't say “no,” right?
I know! I just protested a little. [Laughs]
I want to wrap up by asking you about a very highly anticipated project you have in the pipeline: Again, I'm a gay man, and you are starring in a film with Harris Dickinson called Babygirl. Is there anything you can tease about the film?
Well, Harris is in it. [Laughs] Antonio Banderas is in it as well, so it's sort of a triangle. It's a really interesting, really deep film. It's bold. I wanted to go back and do cinema, having just received the AFI award and having done a lot of television recently. Babygirl is a film in the big sense of the word. It’s very personal and very indie. It was a calling for me. I read the script and I went: “I have to do this.”
One ticket sold to the Broadway show, one ticket sold to Practical Magic 2 and I'm pre-seated for Big Little Lies Season 3. I'm really just lining it all up!
What about Babygirl? I haven't sold a ticket for that?
Oh, sold! For everything. Sold, sold, sold!
You’re my guy.
Nicole, thank you so much. This has been the highlight of my year.
Mine too!
"This has been the highlight of my year" - cue the side-eye from your new husband! 😅😂😄