'Heated Rivalry' Creator Jacob Tierney Answers My Litany of Questions

“Why shouldn't we get some horny good sex for gay people on TV?”

A lot of my job is collecting data. I post quite a bit of content about various media and am always deep in the backend, scouring the analytics like an archeologist, digging to find what instigates the biggest response. The “likes” tell the most obvious story, but for me it’s always been about the reshares and the comments. This data helps give me a sense of when audiences are watching vs. when they’re engaging, the latter of which tips a “hit” into “phenomenon” territory. It’s been only four days, and already I’m calling it for the new series Heated Rivalry, writer/director Jacob Tierney’s new miniseries adaptation of book two in author Rachel Reid’s Game Changers series.

Heated Rivalry stars Connor Storrie and Hudson Williams with creator Jacob Tierney.

But don’t take my word for it. It’s already been featured on the New York Times’s watch list, People Mag devoted an entire article to answering the question of when new episodes come out (Friday, by the way) and everyone from Ilana Glazer to Lena Waithe has been hyping up the show on socials. “It’s kind of-unbelievable everything that’s happening on the Canadian side of the equation and watching the world take this show by storm,” says Liz Duff, host of the Late Night Scrolling podcast. “People were not expecting this, even though those of us who are in the algorithm knew that this show was gonna hit.” So what is the show about and why does it have so many of us unclenching our jaws and lowering them to the floor like Wile E. Coyote?

The official synopsis for the 6-part series reads: “What begins as a secret fling between two fresh faced rookies evolves into a years-long journey of love, denial, and self-discovery. Over the next eight years, as they chase glory on the ice, they struggle to navigate their feelings for each other. Torn between the sport they live for and the love they can’t ignore, Shane and Ilya must decide if there’s room in their fiercely competitive world for something as fragile—and powerful—as real love.”

Shane and Ilya.

The series is the latest in a string of LGBTQ+ book adaptations that includes Alice Oseman’s Heartstopper, Casey McQuiston’s Red, White & Royal Blue and Thomas Mallon’s Fellow Travelers and comes just weeks after GLAAD released a report finding that more than 200 (41%) of the LGBTQ+ characters across all major platforms will not return, due to series cancellations, endings or limited series formats. Will this series prove to be a bellwether for a forthcoming heel turn? Perhaps. For now, its singularity and seeming out of nowhere-ness is proving to be the perfect recipe for success. That, and dump truck asses.

You’ll see how much creator Jacob Tierney loves the source material and its author, Rachel Reid, so I felt it important to get her thoughts on what it’s been like watching this story and these characters that she so lovingly rendered brought to life.

“He has given me such a gift. He has given fans of these characters such a gift. He’s given such a gift to romance readers. I truly don’t think I’ve ever watched anything that felt this much like reading a high-heat romance. So just for the level of respect he’s given to me, to my characters, to what I do… it’s hard to even come up with words for the appreciation I feel because what I do is largely dismissed by a lot of people and I’ve found over the years I’ve had to defend my writing and my genre. I never felt anything but love from everyone involved at any point in this process. There’s no one else I would want to do this with.”

Below, a chat with series creator Jacob Tierney.

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It’s so nice to meet you. I’ve been heavily anticipating this conversation.

I listened to the first episode of your Heated Rivalry podcast.

Thank you!

Even though it’s not a Heated Rivalry podcast, but thank you for devoting a whole episode to it.

It is now! Do you feel like we had a grasp on what we were talking about?

It’s funny, you really did. I know it doesn’t start like a normal show, so it’s been so interesting to see people’s reactions to the idea of how you’re supposed to structure TV, especially with regard to world-building. ‘Cause I was just like… “I’m not gonna do that.” And that’s why I’m so happy the first two episodes came out at once because I think you’ll see that the show gets quite different from Episode 3 on, it slows way down, but part of the thing of being faithful to this book was also being like, “They want this over 8 years,” the yearning, the longing, all this stuff, and I was like, “I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do all these timeframes.” And you commented on your episode that it’s like we only see them when their lives intersect. That’s it! That’s exactly the point. Do they have outside lives? Of course. Do I care right now? No. The idea is that you meet them in these moments when they cross paths. It’s about people who meet up three of four times a year to fuck for three years and then realize they have feelings along the way. I think as gay people we’re like, “You’ve never fucked and then caught feelings?” I have. In fact, that’s the normal path. It’s not like, we met, we yearned, we waited a year to kiss. That’s not how we roll.

But that’s part of the depiction we get in a lot of our quote unquote queer media.

Because they don’t want to watch us have sex, watch us fuck. And that’s what this show is inherently doing.

We really got right into it! Let’s go back to the beginning of the story. You read Rachel Reid’s Game Changers novel series. What was your initial reaction to the series?

Oh, I loved it. I approached this material as a fan. And quite honestly, I did not think initially that I was going to adapt the books. I wasn’t sure this story was adaptable. The book is pure, unabashed smut. If you think the show is smutty, go read the book. But I loved it because I loved Shane and Ilya. And Rachel’s an amazing writer. Her books are funny, they’re smart, she knows hockey. So I slid into her DMs.

Why did you decide on a limited series as opposed to a film?

I think that’s what this story deserved. I think that it wants oxygen, it wants time. I know people are saying that the first two episodes are so rushed. Imagine if I’d done this as a movie and those first two episodes were just one montage. We’re not even into the meat of it at this point. Pun intended! [Laughs] I guess I have to make sex jokes every time I talk about the show. If you’ve read a lot of romance novels, what stands out about Shane and Ilya is that their story is not the norm. This isn’t building up to the “will they kiss?” “Is one of them queer?” “Is one of them not?” All that stuff is answered immediately. And I told Rachel that I wanted to take it seriously. One of the things that this genre doesn’t get is taken seriously and I think this relationship, not only do I think it can sustain six hours, I think it wants it… it’s asking for it. So I wanted to slow it down and I wanted to make these little moments matter because ultimately that is what their relationship is. It’s all these little moments.

Well, let’s just get this out of the way up front — the obvious question after a show comes out the gate with this much wind in its sails: Are there conversations happening about the potential for a season two? There’s gotta be, right?

[Thinking] Yes.

He stammers.

[Laughs] Yes, he stammers. Listen, we did not expect this level of reaction to this show. I thought by the end maybe we’d have a cult following. I made a show called Letterkenny for a long time, and it did really well, but it took four seasons before people really discovered the show. I’m used to a slow burn, and this has been the complete opposite. I can tell you there’s a lot of enthusiasm to do another season and I think it looks good, but I can’t announce anything.

I’m not asking you to, I just wanted to make sure that the door was at least ajar if not yet open.

It’s definitely not going unnoticed that the show is doing well and that people seem to be responding to it. And there’s a sequel book, right?

And I think it’s fair to credit much of that success to the wide net of distribution for this show. How did the HBO acquisition come about? And can you describe it for those of us who don’t understand the acquisition process.

The show was commissioned by Crave as an original. Crave is a Canadian streamer, which means that it only exists within the Canadian borders, so that means you have the whole world to sell. The show has had a weird journey due to a lot of enthusiasm. It was initially going to air in February [and it got bumped up]. As a result, the show is still not done. We’re still finishing the show, which is why it didn’t all drop at once. But anyway, Bell Media, which owns Crave and which is our parent company, they paid for the whole thing, which they don’t often do. This was a big swing for them. It was entirely financed out of Canada which left the rest of the world on the table to be bought. And truly HBO came out of the gate swinging. I genuinely could not be happier. To end up there is so cool. It’s beyond my expectations.

I think it’s a good fit particularly with the proliferation of all these streamers. With so many shows on so many different streamers, I think the streamers themselves have lost a cultural meaning qualitatively for audiences. There’s no discerning what it means to be a show on so many of these networks since they so often pump out as much as they can in the hope of finding a hit. I think HBO is the outlier. HBO, to me, signifies a level of craft. It’s especially fitting if you consider old-school HBO programming.

I agree. HBO was smut. I remember Real Sex. I grew up on that.

I haven’t seen a show like this since Queer as Folk. Was that on the moodboard?

No, quite honestly. I loved the British Queer as Folk when I was a teenager. Once I heard people drawing that comparison with Heated Rivalry, it made sense because both are sex-forward. But I think what Queer as Folk was doing was trying to be really significantly of the contemporary time and place, which I loved. But ours is a Harlequin romance. We are not a gritty documentary; we’re escapist fantasy. They’re massive, successful sports stars. This is not the guys at the bar. But what Queer as Folk did in the 90s was massive. It was an earthquake. Gay 15-year-old me was like, “I can’t believe I get to watch this!” So if we can replicate that excitement, I’m absolutely thrilled for it.

This show establishes the explicit nature of its tone early on. I went in thinking it would be a classic “will they/won’t they?” and learned, fifteen minutes in, that in fact they will! They really will. Why was it important to you to insert that initial sex scene so early in as opposed to edging the audience a bit more?

You’re not doing this book if you’re not doing that. These are people learning about each other and their relationship by fucking. That’s how they’re understanding each other. It’s how they play out their dynamics. It’s the only time, especially in the first two episodes, that they’re not lying to each other, that they’re not doing boisterous dumb boy stuff and being like, “Fuck you, fuck you.” This is when they get vulnerable with each other. This is when they get real. And then the other thing that was important to me is that like… why shouldn’t we get some horny good sex for gay people on TV? Like sex that we know is not going to end in misery or AIDS or punishment. We often get punished for getting sex as characters in queer storylines. So I think you’re weirdly in a safe, nurturing space to watch people fuck. And I’m thrilled that people are so happy about all [the times Ilya checks in about] consent. I did it very consciously, but also, it just makes it hotter. That’s why it’s there. He’s a fucking good top.

In their review, The Hollywood Reporter wrote that “the sex scenes are lengthy and intimate, and although they’re more insinuating than directly graphic, they’re very graphically insinuating, which I mention not to suggest this is ‘extreme’ as content goes — I’d compare it to Bridgerton.” I’d love to get your reaction to the sex scenes being called more insinuation than graphic, because they’re pretty graphic to me, and I find the comparison to Bridgerton a bit baffling.

People don’t know what to do when they encounter something different, and they’re looking for the easiest comparison available. I get why you’d compare it to Bridgerton. I wouldn’t, but I get that. But it’s really not. The sex scenes aren’t graphic in the sense that there’s no dick and you’re not seeing some stuff that we could have shown that the network frankly wanted me to show at one point. And I was like, “I’m not doing that because I’m not putting prosthetic penises on.” I can’t watch sex scenes where men are supposed to be having sex and they don’t have erections and then you’re in porn. I think what’s different about our sex scenes is they take place closer to real time than people are used to and that we linger and we’re there with them. And again, it’s because I think you’re learning about their intimacy through it. What matters is the connection. That’s what makes it hot. But I think what takes this up a notch, and what I think makes especially the female audience champions of this show, is intimacy. That’s why it’s so interesting to experience this gay male romance written by and consumed by women.

I recently interviewed the casting director for Survivor Seasons 1-38 and we discussed the way the producers urged her, especially in the beginning, to cast good-looking people because audiences like watching good-looking people — especially when they’re barely clothed. I obviously know you wanted talented actors that could bring these roles to life, but how important was it for you that they not just be good-looking, but especially for this story: be hot?

It’s important that they’re hot, but it’s more important that they have chemistry. They are both gorgeous. Tens across the board. But what sold it was them together. Because you can have two beautiful people — we’ve all seen this — in a movie or a TV show and it’s not working. But these two had fucking chemistry right away and that is worth its weight in gold. Because the truth is the world is littered with beautiful people, but you need inner life. When we did a chemistry test read with them, I was like, “I’d watch this forever.”

To that end, the fandom has been absolutely feral for this show. I find it remarkably entertaining, the memes and reactions that have come from it. I do, however, recognize that if this language were coming from straight men about a female actress, it would feel very different. Do you think there’s a line that can be crossed by fandoms oversexualizing actors?

Of course. You’ve got to keep that stuff in check. Have fun with these characters and take a deep breath on the actors. They’re actors. Part of the reason we wanted relatively unknown actors is so you can put your fantasies onto them, right? Not like, “I can’t believe who’s playing Ilya Rozanov!” You want to be like, “That’s my Ilya,” you know? But I think it’s important to remember that even though they are game and they are willing and they’re phenomenal, they’re playing roles. Feel free to have fun with the acting parts and give the actors themselves a break.

In that same vein. I’ve seen a lot of speculation online about Hudson and Connor’s sexualities. One viral tweet reads: “Are the actors gay [because] I’ll be very upset if either of them are straight lol.” (This post received quite a bit of blowback, for what it’s worth.) Why do you think people feel they have a right to know an actor’s sexuality?

I think it’s because we as queer people are desperate for allyship, and I get it. But also, it’s none of your business. I don’t think it’s coming from a mean place. I think it’s coming from that parasocial thing where it’s like, “But they’re my friends now!” And it’s like… they’re not. They’re not at your Thanksgiving table. You don’t need to know anything about them. And it’s better for the roles and for the show if you don’t, you know? And they live their lives and do their thing, but no one has a right to demand anything from them. There can also be different answers to that question at different times in your life. So let’s just move it along. Enjoy your Shane and Ilya.

I’d love to get your thoughts on the “controversy” around the HBO Max version of the show appearing to be much more dimly lit than the one airing on Crave. HBO Max responded to a complaint on Instagram, writing, “Our team is aware and currently working on this.”

It’s just a mistake. They’re fixing it. There’s no controversy. HBO Max bought the show and put it on the air within like three weeks. So there was a lot of panic to get this thing going and I think it was just an error. The first person that called me was our cinematographer. He was like, “Why does it look so dark?” And we talked to HBO right away. It was not HBO being like, “We need this nine shades darker.” It was just a time issue.

Heartstopper, Red, White & Royal Blue and this series are all stories centered around gay men that come from books originally written by women or non-binary folks for an audience comprised largely of women. Why do you think this genre has garnered such a massive and devoted fanbase?

I think representation matters and we all live in a deeply misogynist world where our interest culturally and collectively in women and what interests them is almost non-existent. Like the fact that some people are surprised by this and then you look at the numbers and you’re like, this book sold 200,000 copies. This is the number one book on Kindle right now. And not just in the romance category — any book. So part of the reason that the romance industry does not get taken seriously is because people don’t care about what pleases women. And this is a source of pleasure for women. Do I know why? No, I don’t. But one of the things that is so untapped in culture is our interest in women’s interests. And we’re not looking for intersectionality there. I think that we just don’t listen to women. My discovery has been that there’s a lot of this. There’s a lot of these books. And the fandom is rabid, in the best way. They are feral. The head of Crave is also a gay man and when we started posting things on our Instagram of the show, he could not understand that all the comments were from women. Gay men, we don’t know about this. We are starved for any TV show about ourselves, but what’s so much more interesting is that the baked-in audience, the fandom that exists, is women. And they are so excited to be getting this material. And it’s really cool.

I feel like it’s this moment of gay men and women arm-in-arm being like, “We love this thing.”

Being turned on by these two characters. Absolutely.

That’s community.

[Laughs] That’s community. At least the way I do it.

Can we talk about the dick pic that Ilya sends Shane in Episode 2? Rachel Reid posted on Instagram that “the foreskin is pulled back.” Are you surprised that this has become a point of conversation amongst fans?

I appreciate people’s interest in every last aspect of this. But yeah, foreskin pulled back. It happens.

Is there a moment, conversation or scene that you wish audiences would fixate on more in the same way they did with the dick pic?

No. I just can’t wait for them to see the rest of the show. I think the real interesting conversations about this show will happen once the show has aired. Because, again, it’s a book, it has an ending, and I’m really curious to see what the takes will be once you’ve seen all six episodes and once you have a better grasp on the intention.

When you have a success like this one…

And again, it’s only been 72 hours.

72 hours, yes. But in moments like this, there’s going to be immediate conversations happening amongst the men and women in suits who greenlight shit about what can be learned from this show’s success and reengineered in the hope of finding more gold in them hills. Do you see there being a larger takeaway with regard to the show’s wild success out the gate? Is it audiences’ hunger for more gay stories? More sexually explicit shows? Both? Something entirely different?

I think that if you take an interest in what people are already interested in, I think that’s really cool. I can’t tell you how many people wanted to change things when we were first pitching this show. Like, “You can’t do that. It can’t be this.” And I knew that if you changed this book, you’re losing the audience that is built in. They’re not going to be happy about this. And if you want to betray them out of the gate, I don’t know what you’re doing. I don’t know what the benefit is. I hope this show brings a bit of joy and horniness back to TV. Sex is great! Go have some!