A Necessary Conversation with Jonathan Anderson

Talking 'Queer,' Mike White adoration and finding balance.

I don’t mean to be purposefully diminutive, but when I think about the collaborative efforts of director Luca Guadagnino and designer Jonathan Anderson, I can’t help but think of the viral 2016 tweet that read:

“That moment when you, a queen, come across another queen, and discuss how best to maximize your joint slay.”

And these two queens very much fit the bill with sensibilities at once singular, yet somehow harmonious when grafted together.

“In Italy, we say ‘L’abito non fa il monaco,’ which means that the way you look doesn’t make you the person you are in life. But in cinema, the opposite is true.” That was Guadagnino describing the importance of costume design. For the 53-year-old director’s latest projects — Challengers and now Queer, released only eight months apart — he’s turned to his friend to help bring two incredibly disparate visions to life. Challengers centered a love triangle told in vignettes taking place from 2006-2009 and in 2019 in New York, California and Atlanta, whereas Queer is a period romance taking place in 1950s Mexico City and later Ecuador. There’s something so Guadagnino-ian about putting out two films in the same calendar year, one that takes place in New Rochelle, New York and the other in the [checks notes] Ecuadorian jungle.

I always savor any moment I get to spend with Jonathan Anderson, and especially when I get to pick his brain (like in this instance) about his artistry, his process and his general musings. I’m constantly invigorated by creatives whose appetite remains famished no matter their output. Such is very much the case with Anderson, a forward-thinking but also forward-motivated creative with a remarkable aptitude for communicating ideas clearly and unpretentiously — something uncommon amongst his contemporaries, in my humble opinion.

Naturally, I lept at the opportunity to chat with him about his latest project and did my damnedest to sneak in a few unrelated questions, as one ought to do when face to face with greatness.

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I loved the Nirvana shirt you wore to the London Film Festival premiere of Queer. What’s your approach to styling yourself?

It was a T-shirt from their first album. I was doing kind of a musical theme. Now, I’m in LA and I haven’t found one yet. I’m finding them the day before I usually go to these things. The Nirvana T-shirt was a great one. It might just be a gray T-shirt at this point. The nirvana T-shirt was great because Luca — ingeniously — has the Nirvana song in the film, which to me was a little nod to the theme.

Guadagnino and Anderson at the premiere.

I’ve done this for other actors as well; for Zendaya, when Law Roach approached us and said he wanted to do all tennis-inspired outfits for a tennis film.

Obviously, we saw it with Barbie and again now with Wicked; I’m wondering, as an esteemed designer, what are your thoughts on this turn we’ve seen on the red carpet to themed dressing?

Well, I think it's probably good business. It's reinforcing or doubling down on that fantasy. Like Ariana Grande, who I adore (the adoration I have for her is ginormous) — what I love is this idea of fantasy. This idea of leaning into your own type of dress. Everyone likes to dress up. No matter who you are. If you’re going to your birthday, you want to dress up. I think everyone has this moment where you want to slightly embody a different character. Lean in.

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How did this experience compare to Challengers in the sense that you’re no longer a freshman and now a sophomore at everything involved in the process, from pre-production to the making of the film to the press rollout?

I think for the first, I felt like I was some sort of strange groupie. I felt like it was so detached from me. I was like, “I can’t believe I actually did this.” With Challengers, it was like, “How did we pull it off?” in a weird way. With Queer, I was coming to understand the dynamics of the whole thing: working on set, how to dress crowds, making sure there’s not only one color in a crowd, everyone dressing in the same color. You start to learn what you want to creatively achieve in something. I adore Luca for this. He was like, “We’re going to do this sports film, and then, suddenly, we're going to do this period film.” It was a kind of bipolar situation. Which I love. Luca has this amazing capability of making you realize you have not hit a glass ceiling. 

Were there instances in which you created something for either of these films, and then when you saw it on film, it looked different than it did in person and you had to make alterations as a result?

Yeah. Sometimes colors can be twisted in it. We did a lot of camera tests on both. For example, with Queer, if you look at Lee’s character [played by Daniel Craig], I had this kind of weird obsession with a costume narrative where Lee would go from a cocaine white straight through to black. This idea that he would go through 50 shades of brown. At one point, I had this fantasy that we would dye everything in heroin, which was obviously never going to happen. I like this idea that you suddenly are trying to find your own creative journey in it, and then you realize the camera lens would change this sometimes. 

It’s my understanding that Daniel Craig came into this with a lot of perspective on how he wanted clothing to react. Can you talk about meeting and working with Daniel?

I first met Daniel with Luca in Brooklyn, where we were kind of testing the looks. I was incredibly nervous before even meeting him. This was the second time I’m doing this; I feel like I’m an imposter, what am I doing? This guy has worked on Bond, he’s used to dealing with the best of the best. And I have this concept of “each look is going to have one item.” There’s not going to be 50 of each piece. I have never met someone who is just so gracious, so funny, so completely engaged in what you want to achieve from it. The curiosity level was insane. It was amazing. He is one of the most amazing individuals I've ever met in my life because you feel completely safe to say what you want to do without any barriers. Daniel knows clothing inside and out; how he wants a shoe to react. Watching him put a suit on, even when we were doing him as older Lee with prosthetics, we saw a completely different individual. Moving differently. You just realize that Daniel is one of the greatest actors of our generation. It’s insane. We forget that. You have Bond, which is so famous, you kind of forget how genius it is. I was watching every Bond film he was in, and you realize that he is 100% every single time. And that’s why I adore him. That’s why I used him in the Loewe campaign. I was like, “I think you’re fucking cool.” 

Favorite Daniel Craig movie?

Love Is the Devil. When I was younger, I remember when that film came out and I was just totally obsessed. I love Francis Bacon so this was just… yeah. 

You were once pursuing acting as a career path. Do you ever think about what life would be like had you not made the pivot to fashion?

No. Definitely not. No one wants to see that. I never wanted to do film — always theater. I was always kind of a theater kid, singing and dancing, running around. I think because I am very Northern Irish in this, I see fault in everything. My job is to make people look amazing, therefore I see all flaws. When I look at myself, I see exactly what this face looks like, so I know what the capabilities are. I think when you’re going to have a camera on your nose, this is not the face you want to be seen. Some people are made to be seen. The camera goes on them… and it’s just — bam! Plus, I would never be able to let go. I think, as an actor, you have to be able to completely let go of your entire self. I was never very good at it. Really? Do we have to? Once I knew I was never going to be good at that, I had to stop it. When you are never going to be the best at what you’re going to do, it is best to stop. And I’m incredibly dyslexic. I would do Shakespeare and totally change it. I would forget it and that’s my worst fear: where you just have to make it up. 

We know Luca Guadagnino the filmmaker. How would you describe Luca Guadagnino, the friend?

The same as the filmmaker. You know how people say you speak to seven people everyday? Luca is one of my people. I think I cannot function in a day without touching base. It could be on art, it could be on film, it could be on fashion, it could be on gardening, it could be on like, wall colors. I adore Luca. The first time I met him, we were meant to have a coffee for 30 minutes - I think we ended up talking for seven hours. I like that he’s blunt. There is nothing like this good old Italian bluntness. Weirdly, I think Irish and Italian people get on. There’s this overarching Catholicism to escape from.

Would you describe yourself as blunt?

Yeah. Probably too blunt. I think people then struggle with that with me. I feel like there is no filter. I say what I feel. Some people can read that as arrogance, some people can read that as I’m an asshole. But it’s more that I just want the best result out of something. Or find some sort of constructive way to get through it.

If you were to work with another director, is there anyone you’d have your eye on?

I don’t know. I don’t know enough about directors, I only know Luca! You know who I would love to work with? A friend we have in common. Mike White. Mike White for me is probably one of the sharpest motherfuckers out there. The nuance, the sharpness is insane. I think he really understands clothing in the cinema. So yeah, Mike White. And if he was still alive, I would work with Billy Wilder because I love Sunset Boulevard. That is the queen in me!

You were in Rome shooting this film for two months while also maintaining your daily responsibilities at Loewe and JW Anderson. How did you handle the balance?

Balance? I don’t have balance! I just have work. And I wouldn’t have it any other way. Today it’s like, we have a break for two hours and I’m like, “No, we have to keep going.” Because if I stop, I look down and I’m like, “Oh my god, what are we doing?” Then I’m away from the office and I feel guilty that I’m not at the office. I love what I do! You only live once and I want to do as much output as I physically can. There are moments in fashion where it does feel like a job. I think when I work in film, it never feels like a job. In a weird way for me, it’s like going to university. I’m not the boss. Just tell me what to do. Tell me if I’m in the way. That’s me. I think when you love what you do, it becomes an obsession, ultimately. Balance… yeah. I need to find more balance with all. A very dear friend of mine has this amazing character — Kiki and Herb. In one of her songs she performed at Carnegie Hall, there is this amazing moment where she is about to be put into an asylum and all she is doing is staring at a white wall. There is nothing more fascinating than completely zoning out. There is nobody asking you what to do, no one is talking. You’re just in a daze staring. It’s the easiest way to just…get away from all of it.

I want to ask you about choosing your collaborators. Obviously, you have this great partnership with Luca. On the fashion side, you’ve partnered with Guinness. You’ve partnered with Uniqlo, Wellipets, Studio Ghibli, On Running, Sotheby’s and more. How does something go from being an intrigue of yours to something you want to be in partnership with?

For me it’s like: Guinness: I have been desperate to use their graphics. I love their graphics. For many years, it didn't work out. It wasn’t even a commercial decision. I think the graphics remind me of my childhood. It reminds me in a very cliche, Irish-tourist-board kind of way. I love all the nuances around it. I think Guinness has some of the greatest advertisements in history.

Like Uniqlo. Mr. Yanai is someone I really look up to. I think he’s a genius. And I was at Uniqlo most days.

And On Running. I remember going to the guys there and asking if they wanted to collaborate and they were like “Huh?”

Now with Loewe, it's one of the biggest collaborations we do globally. The minute you are doing something you do not believe in, then it will not work. In terms of collaboration. If it’s Guinness, you have to know exactly why you're doing it. There’s nothing worse than when something is forced.

Richard Hawkins said this about you in your recent T Magazine profile:

“I think Jonathan pushes [LVMH] as far as they’ll go when it comes to sexuality and queerness.”

And that got me thinking about this film, which too pushes sexuality and queerness. As you know, Mubi scrapped an entire festival it had planned in Turkey after local authorities banned a screening of the film. What was your reaction to that — not just as someone who worked on the film, but someone whose entire body of work often celebrates and pushes sexuality and queerness?

I grew up in Northern Ireland. I’m queer. There’s nothing more queer. I am proud to be queer. I think probably Luca would agree with this: Sometimes you think everything is further on than it really is in the world. It’s an interesting kind of dilemma when you realize that as much as we think we are already there, we maybe are not. I think this is an interesting dynamic in that situation. We realize things are probably not as far ahead as we thought. Which is great, because we know there’s a lot more to be done. That is why a film like this is incredibly important. I will never talk about politics, but it’s incredibly important in terms of politics that Luca has a voice that can put this out there. It’s not even just in queer culture; there are many parts of culture where we are not there yet. And sometimes it’s good to be reminded of this. Because we are very lucky. We don’t realize how lucky we are. And it’s a very brave decision.

Luca has this remarkable ability to find it-boys, from Timothée Chalamet, Mike Faist and now with Drew Starkey in this film. Not to say they didn’t have careers before, but I think Luca super-charged their stardom. I’m curious about Drew, with you having worked with him on this film and the Loewe campaign. What is it about him that makes him such an intrigue on screen, and someone who gets the internet so excited?

I don't know the internet part, but if the internet had met Drew in person, it would have the same reaction. Drew is just the kindest, most gracious person. He is so caring. I think that’s why people are attracted to him. I think you see exactly what you get. There’s no bravado. There’s no performance. He’s not performing life. Sometimes, when they become bigger and more famous, they start to perform. They start to lose their charm. I don’t see that with Drew. I think Drew is very grounded. For example, at one of the premieres, I met his brother and sister, and you realize, he’s just an amazing individual. He has such a network behind him. He’s just a great guy.

You have done two films now with Luca, two very successful collaborations. One has to wonder when you go at it twice with someone and it goes really well, why not do it again? Do you have anything planned for the future in terms of the film world and possible continuing collaborations with Luca?

I’m sure that me and Luca will find something else to do. I adore working with Luca and I feel like I would have so much FOMO if I didn’t do it. I think it helps me to push myself because, if you had asked me five years ago if I could do costumes on a film, I would’ve said it was impossible. It’s my own personal thing; it’s not to do with being in a brand. Me being me, being creative without any commerce involved. 

Is there anything — whether it be other media or art forms — that you don't think you could do but you are curious about?

Homeware. Yeah, I’m exploring some of those things in JW Anderson next year. We’re doing something different. Since I turned 40, I feel like I’m putting everything in the bin and starting over again because I feel like that’s going to make me feel not-40. With my own brand, I feel like I’m restarting it from scratch. I want to re-see things, rechallenge my viewpoint on my own brand. It’s always keeping the goal so far away that you almost never get there.

What are you watching at the moment, what are you listening to, what art are you consuming?

Randomly, because of Drew, I finally decided to watch Outer Banks, in which I did a bender on and became a junkie for. I was committed to the cause, I did it all. Today, I’m going to see Florian Krewer’s show at Michael Werner. I adore his paintings. I’m excited to see that. One of my favorite painters died today, Frank Auerbach. He was 93. One of the last of that generation in Britain, who was one of the greatest examples.

You are among this year's 100 Most Influential People according to Time. Who, besides Luca, has been your biggest influence of 2024?

That’s a really hard question. I think [my frequent collaborator] Pol Anglada. Pol has always been an inspiration to me. Because he knows how to remind me to think, “What the fuck is Pol doing?” I adore that in Pol. Pol is very good at reminding me that there is everything else bar this.