Ariana Grande Dreamscapes the Perfect Met Gala Table
It’s giving 'Titanic' meets 'Waiting for Guffman' meets 'Showgirls'.
Ahead of the 2024 Met Gala, in which she’d return for the first time since 2018 and give a surprise performance to an audience that included Sarah Jessica Parker, FKA twigs and Cole Escola, Ariana Grande allowed me to join her at one of her final fittings with the Loewe team for her first-ever in-person appearance on SHUT UP EVAN: THE PODCAST (she called in for a Season 3 episode featuring Cynthia Erivo).
But first: A necessary moment for the lewk, a gown she told Vogue is her favorite thing she’s ever worn. That favorite thing comprised of a molded bustier in leather and mother of pearl paired with a multi-layered pleated silk chiffon skirt, hand-painted to mimic the surface of an iridescent shell. Heaven, as Loewe creative director Jonathan Anderson likes to say!
And now, without any further ado, our chat, which you can listen to (in part) here.
Hi!
Hi. If my voice sounds scratchy, it’s because I’ve been singing all day.
Just to set up the scene right now, I just walked in and had to lift my jaw up off the floor.
You're too sweet!
My jaw’s still down, but it's coming back up slowly. How would you describe this look?
I would describe it as two things. I think I would say it's a little subtle kiss to Glinda and the Wicked press tour that is to come because I think the opal essence of it is very reminiscent of a bubble to me. Just everything is bubble to me. Just sort of like Wicked, Wicked, Wicked. It's also giving June baby — that's my birthstone, pearl — but I think I would describe it as like the mother oyster in Alice in Wonderland. She's very wise. She's a lot wiser than her children who are eager to go with these men who clearly want to eat them, but she says, “The sea is nice; take my advice and stay right here.” I think it's giving her, the survivor mother of pearl who emerges from the sea and was not eaten, but she's now on her own, which is emotional. It’s as if she escaped that near-death encounter and emerged and had to attend a ball on the way.
This is your second-ever Met Gala. I think there's a lot of lore around the Met Gala. I mean, as someone who's covered the event for over a decade, I don't even really know a ton about it having never been inside. For someone that has no idea what the Met Gala is, how would you explain it?
In general, it's just kind of a grown-up, dress-up party for artists and people that you've seen make art, whether it's singers or actors or fashion designers or models or people who love art and whose life is making art. It's an opportunity to collaborate with other people who love making art — brilliant designers — so we're all just sort of players playing a role in a big, fun, theatrical evening. And then you get inside and it's like, ‘Well, we did it. What now?’ and we just hang out and you say hi, you meet some people, there's a meal and there's a performance and then that's really it. And it's all to benefit the Met and the Costume Institute. I love watching from home.
Me too.
That's the thing: I've only been once and I'm excited to go again. I used to get very nervous, but I feel very excited.
It’s so wonderful to hear that this thing that had previously made you anxious is something you're really excited about this go-round. And I think that's just such a lovely thing to have the opportunity to revisit a scenario again later in life with a new perspective.
I love it. I love art and I love opportunities to be creative and especially opportunities to collaborate with other creative people that I love so much. I'm the biggest Loewe fan. My mom and I, our whole Christmas was Loewe-themed. And it was funny because she was like, “What theme are you going for this year?” and I was like, “Mommy, you're the one who does themes, but I am getting a lot of Loewe,” and she was like, “Uh-uh! That's my theme!” and I was like, “Well, they're going to be hearing from us a lot then, I guess.” And I was going to tell them when I met the team the first time and they were like, “Oh, we know. We know about Christmas.” Everyone has really beautiful energy that works at Loewe and on my team as well. It's very important to have amazing people around who love what they do and are equally as excited about it as the next person. So to have wonderful energy is always a huge, huge relief when you're working on something that's so high stakes. And I just have found it to be so enjoyable and happy and fun and giggly and it's been lovely, and I think we're making something so special and it feels so right.
You're meeting all of these icons, not just in the celebrity space, but in politics, sports, etc. I imagine it's an anxious time. What do you do to stay calm?
Meditation is my favorite thing in the world.
Oh yeah, you told me about that app!
Yeah! Insight Timer. I just kind of feel like I’ve been able to be more present since I incorporated it so heavily into my life and I really enjoy it. It's high stakes for all parties involved, and we're all just people trying to make stuff. I love meeting people. I love making friends. I love talking to people and literally every single person who's involved in something like this, from the people you meet at the dinner, to the designers who designed it, to the tailors who did the tailoring, to the stylists, to the photographers who are there trying desperately to get your eye contact… it's just like we're all in it together, not to be whatever, but it just feels humanizing to remember. Everyone cares so much. I think seeing through that lens calms me so much.
The Met Gala, to me, feels quintessentially New York. It takes place here and there's just something very New York-y about it. It's all of these celebrities descending upon the city. You’re a newer New York City resident. What is it that you love about this city now as a resident as opposed to someone who used to come here and visit?
I love it so much and the energy of New York is absolutely unmatched. I think there's an awareness in New York that you can't really find anywhere else. Everyone in New York has this unapologetic nature and this openness and this sense of: “This is what I'm here for. This is what I want to do. This is what I want to see.” Whereas I feel like when you go [a lot of other places], they're kind of pretending they don't really care about it as much, but New Yorkers really care and they've got a good sense of humor, and we're all equally afraid of the same things at the same time. And it's also so free and fun and no one gives a fuck here, and yet everyone also gives a fuck in the same way.
Yes and!
Can I ask for your answer?
What do I love about New York?
I want to know more about what you love about New York because I feel like we love all the same things.
Well, my relationship with New York has changed now that I'm in Brooklyn because I feel like I have a different perspective on it. I was in the East Village for over 10 years. I totally agree with what you were speaking to. I think there's an eagerness about New Yorkers and a purpose, right? I feel like this is a place where people are very purpose-driven in that they've come here to prove something to themselves or to the world.
It's more honest. New York is honest.
Yes! I get on the subway sometimes and I look around at all of these faces — many of whom are on their phones now, but occasionally you have people that are still looking up and interacting with the world — and I'm like, “What's her story? Where is she headed? How has her day been? What is she exhausted by?”
It demands human connection!
Which is what we seek.
Yes, which is what we seek! I really, really, really am healthiest and best when I'm in a place where I can put on a little cute hat and sunglasses and walk around a little. I'm a big wanderer. I think that's why I loved living in London so much because I would just walk through the Heath. I lived in Hampstead and it was my favorite thing in the world. I'd walk around Hampstead every single day that I was off from morning ‘till night and just shop and be whatever. And then there would be like… Helena Bonham Carter rummaging through antiques in a corner in rainy Hampstead, and I'd be like, “Wow, this is the best day of my life.” Of course, I didn't bother her, but she was just fabulous and…
And I would say an underrated Mrs. Lovett, in my opinion.
I love her in everything.
Okay, veering back to the Met Gala…
Sorry!
No, no. I enjoy it.
It's been four hours. You're on your third question!
If you were in charge of the Met Gala theme, and this is interesting because…
I'm sitting up!
Some themes are designer-based. You have themes centered around Chanel or Galliano, but then you get more esoteric themes like the Catholic Church, for instance. So let's veer off the designer thing because I think we agree that if we're doing a designer theme, we're sticking with Loewe. But if we were to go more through that esoteric lens, where are you at?
I feel like death or the afterlife or haunting… something that veers towards horror, but not horror because that word allows for too much gore and I don't need everyone covered in blood. I literally mean life and death. Like ghosts…ish: acceptable. Paranormal: acceptable. Not zombie — no, no, no. I mean: Where do we go from here? And just leave it up to everyone. It could really lend itself to some really emotional pieces.
What I like about that is that it’s a theme that allows for a lot of interpretation. Sometimes, not to criticize past themes, but there are some themes that I feel are a little on the nose, and I think people get wrapped up in that. And so a theme like that…
It can mean absolutely anything. And it's a little spooky!
We like! It’s funny because whenever you and I are talking about horror films, I always go back to Terrifier. It always pops into my head.
I still need to see it.
I know, but for some reason…
I have so many screenshots of the clown on my phone and every time I pass it, I'm like, “I need to watch that.” And I take a picture and I send it to you.
You don't need to watch it. But there's something about Terrifier. I don’t know why I associate it with you. I think because when you and I were talking about horror movies once, it was right after I'd seen it or something, and he stays in my mind.
But do you understand that I love and I am so deeply honored and moved that you think of me when you see him? That's the nicest thing anyone could ever say to me.
If you had two extra tickets to the Met Gala, which famous folks would you want to offer them up to?
Oh my God.
Go weird.
I mean, how could I not? It's us. Everyone I'm thinking probably is already coming.
This is the problem. This is the kind of event in which it's sort of like everyone has a possibility of either being there or having been there.
I mean, I want to sit with Kathy Bates. I want to sit with Victor Garber. The cast of Titanic. Who else?
I like where your head is at. I feel like you and I would want some Coolidge representation.
Of course. But hasn't she been?
No.
Wait. I thought she had been! That’s why I didn't say her before.
No, it's crazy.
Well, Jennifer, obviously. And I mean Catherine has probably been — Catherine O'Hara.
I don't know if she's been.
Why hasn't she been?
That's a problem.
Has Eugene Levy been?
I don't think so.
Has Elizabeth Berkley been? Has Gina Gershon been?
So basically what we need is to round up the cast of Waiting for Guffman, Showgirls…
And Titanic! Perfect. Okay, cool. So next year we're sitting with Jennifer Coolidge, Catherine O'Hara, Eugene Levy… and Parker Posey has to come!
Oh my God!
Kathy Bates, she's at the head of the table. Victor, Elizabeth and Gina. First name basis.
Can I tell you a quick little Parker Posey aside? So I was at Coolidge's Halloween party this past year. The fabulous Parker Posey was there dressed as Cinderella before the ball. I'm super excited because I'm walking over to this party with Parker Posey, and throughout the night I'm looking over and Parker's sweeping the dance floor, and I go over to her — it must be 2:00 AM at this point — and I'm like, “Parker, what are you doing?” And she was just in character.
I'm dying.
And she tells me, “I have to finish sweeping.”
That's mood. That makes me so happy. Thank you for sharing.
Closing out: Did you attend your high school prom or any other social dances?
Oh my God, no. The closest thing I had to middle or high school experiences was being in a show on Nickelodeon that takes place in a high school.
Fair.
We had a prom episode! I think we had two, actually. No, one was a prom and one was a Cow Wow.
I'm going to throw one non Met-related question in.
Please!
I'm going to go Wicked, surprise surprise.
Yay! Good!
So as you know, I have a favorite song in Wicked that is not featured on the original Broadway cast album.
Of course. Oh my God!
Because at the time, it was perceived to be a spoiler. And it's just such a disservice to fans like me…
To Miss Nessarose.
Yes! 21 years having never heard a recorded version of this song...
[Ariana starts singing “The Wicked Witch of the East”]
It's punishing. So can you give me a temperature check? There are a lot of fans out there that are going to hear what they perceive as a new song from Wicked, but it's in fact not!
It’s not.
What can you tease for us about “The Wicked Witch of the East”?
I can tell you that Marissa [Bode] is absolutely brilliant. I am so floored by her. I actually got to be there for a few pieces of that day, quietly, and I got to watch her perform a lot of that scene and she's just so beautiful and I'm really excited for the world to fall in love with her.
Is it sacrilege that I'm using my one opportunity to ask a Wicked question about this song and not “Defying Gravity” or “Popular”?
No! Do you understand that that's not only a testament to what a fan you are, but also probably the most refreshing and exciting thing, because everyone has so many questions about the other things? I really, really am eager and anxious to talk about my other castmates as much as possible. Everyone always asks Glinda things and Elphaba things, but oh my gosh, there's so much brilliance surrounding the two girls that I can't wait for everyone to just fall in love with.
I cannot wait. We're putting a pin in this conversation!
To be continued.
Alright, Ari, thank you so much.
Thank you so much. That was so much fun.
"I would describe it as like the mother oyster in Alice in Wonderland. She's very wise. She's a lot wiser than her children who are eager to go with these men who clearly want to eat them, but she says, “The sea is nice; take my advice and stay right here.” I think it's giving her, the survivor mother of pearl who emerges from the sea and was not eaten, but she's now on her own, which is emotional. It’s as if she escaped that near-death encounter and emerged and had to attend a ball on the way."
This is the most incredible way to describe a dress, huge respect for her.